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19 Comments
cecilia
June 28, 2020
Hi Erin, This is a great topic. However my confusion was. At the beginning one of the purpose of converting to use pre-ferment is that less yeast can be used. but how is that be? the yeast amount that is used is remain the same just that it is divided to pre-ferment and the dough? please clear me up :)) thank you!!
candzgo
June 1, 2020
This is a great article. But I have a question, can you do a preferment using milk instead of water if milk is the liquid of choice in the recipe? If not, how would you adapt the recipe to include a preferement.
Thriftymom1973
May 5, 2020
I am SOOOO excited to have found your video on Gluten that led me here. I have been trying to find information about this subject that is reliable and easy to understand. so excited to dig deeper. I read through this and probably missed it but which type of preferment would you say rustic pizza crust falls under? I have been working for years to find the perfect crust.
I also wanted to tell you that this will come in handy for my kids as well. They love to bake and cook and because we homeschool, this will be incorporated into some of their lessons. #WeDoUseMathInRealLife
I also wanted to tell you that this will come in handy for my kids as well. They love to bake and cook and because we homeschool, this will be incorporated into some of their lessons. #WeDoUseMathInRealLife
Michael F.
April 29, 2020
Thank you for the article, very informative. I would like to learn more about hydration as well. What is the reason you use ounces rather than grams? I thought metric is more precise.
Chabarang
March 8, 2020
Thank you for a very thorough and informative article! I am new to the world of preferments; your article was a fantastic intro!
Since I am into using natural yeasts, what would be the use of a preferment? Or do I skip everything and simply follow the sourdough recipes? I want to gain as much flavor as possible, so any tips on how to get that from natural yeast starters only would be appreciated. Thanks!
Since I am into using natural yeasts, what would be the use of a preferment? Or do I skip everything and simply follow the sourdough recipes? I want to gain as much flavor as possible, so any tips on how to get that from natural yeast starters only would be appreciated. Thanks!
Dchurchill1
December 30, 2018
Your recipes for biga and polish do not align with your bakers percentages.
Paul
May 4, 2018
You say sponge needs more yeast due to shorter ferment time (30-90 min), but in article it has the same 1% yeast as the pate fermente (15-18 hrs)? What am I missing?
smita
June 26, 2017
Thank you for this article, it is quite helpful in my present journey to learn to understand and use poolish, biga etc.
I have two general questions. One is, how would you choose a kind of pre ferment over the other if you wanted to adapt a recipe? A poolish or biga or pate fermente?
The second general question is regarding using preferments vs bulk retardation.
Up till now I have had such great success with bulk retardation. I mix the dough, give it one rise at ambient temp. deflate and stick it in the fridge overnight or longer and the taste and texture of the final bread is so much improved. In my home there is no comparison between a dough that just got one rise at room temperature the shaped, proofed and baked and one that got an additional long slow rise in fridge. Even with enriched doughs, such as brioche (rich or light), sweet doughs such as for cinnamon rolls and doughs that have pumpkin or sweet potato I have repeatedly found this to be the case. And certainly for lean simple doughs like pizza, baguette, some flat breads, this is very true.
So my question is, can you achieve by bulk retardation what you do using a preferment? Shouldn’t it be the same chemistry going on? Which begs the question, if I were to do the reverse and merge the ingredients in a bread recipe that calls for a separate pre ferment at mix it all at once and do a long bulk retardation would I not make a similar bread?
Thank you!
I have two general questions. One is, how would you choose a kind of pre ferment over the other if you wanted to adapt a recipe? A poolish or biga or pate fermente?
The second general question is regarding using preferments vs bulk retardation.
Up till now I have had such great success with bulk retardation. I mix the dough, give it one rise at ambient temp. deflate and stick it in the fridge overnight or longer and the taste and texture of the final bread is so much improved. In my home there is no comparison between a dough that just got one rise at room temperature the shaped, proofed and baked and one that got an additional long slow rise in fridge. Even with enriched doughs, such as brioche (rich or light), sweet doughs such as for cinnamon rolls and doughs that have pumpkin or sweet potato I have repeatedly found this to be the case. And certainly for lean simple doughs like pizza, baguette, some flat breads, this is very true.
So my question is, can you achieve by bulk retardation what you do using a preferment? Shouldn’t it be the same chemistry going on? Which begs the question, if I were to do the reverse and merge the ingredients in a bread recipe that calls for a separate pre ferment at mix it all at once and do a long bulk retardation would I not make a similar bread?
Thank you!
Michael M.
February 8, 2017
This article on preferments was very informative. There is , however, one thing that would probably help most of us with kitchen scales, and that is to have the weights in grams rather than fractions of ounces. I would think that the average home scale would not measure fractions of ounces.
Thanks-
Thanks-
JuJu
May 1, 2017
Hi, Michael...in this case, the ounces are not fluid ounces, but net weight ounces. Digital kitchen scales have a unit of measurement that is lb, oz, as well as grams, millimeters, etc.. There are some very good and reasonably-priced ones on the market, these days. Just do a search for reviews on kitchen scales to see what is available.
Paul
September 15, 2016
Hi,
Very interesting article. However, I think your math is wrong for the yeast calculations. In your example you multiply by 0.025, which would be 2.5%. Instead, you should multiply by 0.0025 for the 0.25%
Very interesting article. However, I think your math is wrong for the yeast calculations. In your example you multiply by 0.025, which would be 2.5%. Instead, you should multiply by 0.0025 for the 0.25%
Jim
June 27, 2016
Since the yeast multiplies in the biga or poolish, why don't you have to shrink the total yeast used when converting a recipe to a preferment? In this article's example, aren't you effectively adding much more yeast than the original recipe called for?
JuJu
May 2, 2017
Beginner home beer brewers ask that same question all the time.
There is a term known as the "crabtree effect" in the fermentation process for both doughs and home brews that goes into a lot more scientific detail.
However, more briefly, yeast goes through an optimal number of cycles when multiplying, and it is that optimal growth of more than just one healthy yeast cell in a starter that not only produces a better flavor, but gives the dough a jump start, also reducing kneading time.
There is a term known as the "crabtree effect" in the fermentation process for both doughs and home brews that goes into a lot more scientific detail.
However, more briefly, yeast goes through an optimal number of cycles when multiplying, and it is that optimal growth of more than just one healthy yeast cell in a starter that not only produces a better flavor, but gives the dough a jump start, also reducing kneading time.
jelloooojen
June 14, 2016
This article is awesome. I read a couple days ago about Poolish on Weekend Bakery and I have been wanting to know more. Thank you.
I have one question, for the sponge, you said that it is used in enriched doughs, so does this mean I can use it for a brioche or Babka?
I have one question, for the sponge, you said that it is used in enriched doughs, so does this mean I can use it for a brioche or Babka?
AntoniaJames
June 10, 2016
Example of two different conversions - to adapt a standard recipe with no levain using commercial yeast only, to one substituting levain for a portion of the flour and liquid -- can be found in comments by Rivka and by me, 4 years ago, in this early (2010) Your Best Bread finalist recipe: https://food52.com/recipes/4022-buttermilk-oatmeal-bread ;o)
An updated version with metric mass and volume units is here: https://food52.com/recipes/40561-buttermilk-oatmeal-bread-updated (I could not revise the original one as it was locked by the editors, as all finalist recipes are.)
An updated version with metric mass and volume units is here: https://food52.com/recipes/40561-buttermilk-oatmeal-bread-updated (I could not revise the original one as it was locked by the editors, as all finalist recipes are.)
witloof
June 10, 2016
This was fascinating, thank you. I don't bake bread regularly, but the two things I generally like to make are butter rolls for holidays and challah. The butter roll recipe is something I have tweaked over the years to improve the texture, since I love chewy bread. I use bread flour, give the rolls two long, slow rises in the refrigerator, and form tight little balls of dough with as much surface tension as I can provide.
Challah is a different story. I have never been able to achieve a sufficiently chewy texture, probably because the dough in all of the recipes I have tried over the years is so heavily enriched with egg and fat. I wonder if you have tried an enrichment for challah or brioche, and what your experiences were? Thanks for a great, thought provoking read.
Challah is a different story. I have never been able to achieve a sufficiently chewy texture, probably because the dough in all of the recipes I have tried over the years is so heavily enriched with egg and fat. I wonder if you have tried an enrichment for challah or brioche, and what your experiences were? Thanks for a great, thought provoking read.
JuJu
May 2, 2017
If you haven't checked out Peter Reinhart's, The Bread Baker's Apprentice," he does three variations on brioche, Poor Man's, Middle Class, and Rich Man's brioche, using a sponge. I tried the Middle Class brioche using a sponge and made cinnamon rolls. Beyond delicious.
jeanmarieok
June 10, 2016
Thanks for the great article!! Very helpful. I have abandoned my sourdough (gone too much) but miss the complexities it gives my breads.















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